Surely the main point is that an MP was elected by the constituents for the party/values he campaigned under .. if he subsequently chooses to change parties then all those who voted for him are no longer being represented by someone with their values … a by-election would be the fairest way to go… the people could then choose to follow the MP or vote for someone else to represent them…. An expensive proposition, I know, but certainly more democratic than having one's wishes hijacked without any recourse.
Yes it should be banned. The Majority of us are voting for a party not a candidate. When the candidate decides that they are switching sides they need to resign and a by-election should be triggered. The current system is unfair to voters and open to bribery and corruption. Time to end this practice.
Then the candidate needs to consult with the voters first, but technicality or not, when most of us vote we are voting along party lines. If my
MP switched parties after being voted into office I would be extremely pissed off and consider it treachery to the highest degree, a betrayal of people who supported the candidate to win a seat in Parliament.
I think you just painted a really flattering picture of MP Ma and his adjacent riding liberal friend.
The Ma floor crossing has a tinge of CCP influence.
But whatever. Chinese “ police stations”. Etc. the tinge is more like “ stench”
Ottawa really is a political country club of elitists and some Rasputin style skilled political strategists.
What you really should address with your political knowledge, is the question of how effective a Westminster parliamentary system can be? Ours has clearly been suborned and manipulated by a minority government on a repressive and repetitive basis.
As for the perennial floor crosser Churchill, he was both liberal and conservative in politics far longer than practically anyone in Canadian politics.
64 years total ;20 as a liberal, 44 as a conservative.
How long has Outremont or Ma been in politics? Carney?
Is to laugh, to bring up
Churchill to justify this nonsense. A liberal talking point.
This entire Canadian political system is an incestuous elitist swamp.
How can it be fixed? Or do you think Brian Lilley, it’s ok ?
Yes. If telling us that Mp Ma is buddies with Hodgson and that’s how they convivially came to the “cross the floor” decision. Thats a liberal talking point. I said it was a really flattering picture you painted here. This is not “ conspiracy”. Ma met with the Chinese communist party ambassador to Canada three days prior to the crossing. So the issue of CCP interference is real.
This crossing is not some Churchillian expression of conscience.
Clearly you should not take umbrage if I point out the issues and the similarities in your analysis.
Here’s the thing. I would rather you address serious issues than worry about my taking your “ they were just buddies “ point seriously.
In these substack writings there are different points of view. Mostly politely expressed.
Terry Glavin is a serious resource of research and opinion on Chinese CP interference.
He also has TDS and cannot accept any positive review of Trumps presidency.
How do I know this ? When I posted as a subscriber that Trump had done some seriously positive actions Mr Glavin asked me not to subscribe and offered to refund my subscription.
I told Terry to keep the money and unsubscribed.
My closest friend is Chinese Canadian. An honourable person who contributes serious to the community among other things. Suffers from almost terminal TDS.
That’s life.
My next door neighbour is a seriously intelligent, well fixed , decent human being. Thinks Carney is the second coming of economic reason and goodness.
That’s life.
Here’s the thing: if I disagree with you , should I avoid discussing the disagreement ? I avoid it with my neighbour . I keep the peace with my Chinese friend by avoiding the TDS issue.
I don’t think you ( to tell the truth ) understand how totally the political system in Canada is failing its citizens.
I can’t let this go. You are a political expert. Let me give you examples as to how Westminster parliamentary democracy is failing Canada.
Covid mandates.
Dr Tam” no human to human transmission”. “ closing borders won’t stop the spread”. “ social distancing “. All those statements are lies or wrong or just made up.
Two Chinese scientists conspired with a Chinese military doctor in a level ; lab in Winnipeg in the beginning of this COVID scourge.
Deported. Covered up
In face the Covid scourge was indeed a man made gain of function research endeavour in Wuhan that went horribly wrong
Three years ago Facebook would censor my opinion on this and the Toronto Sun no less would call it a conspiracy theory.
What is the political truth?
Deceit
When Canadians protested mandates?
PM refuses to meet protestors.
When protest continues seizes bank accounts and invokes emergency powers. Unconstitutionally.
What is the political truth?
Gang up on Canadians with an NDP liberal “agreement” and avoid electoral defeat.
Persecute Lich and Barber for five years now?
Premier Ford stands up for this
Political lawfare.
Calls an election early;reelected.
The political system in Canada rewards lies, deceit and chicanery with impunity.
Citizens are crushed for speaking up.
How about Kamloops “ dead indigenous children’s graves”?
A lie.
Trudeau puts flags at half mast; takes a photo op with a teddy bear. 100’s of churches are burned to the ground.
He says it the arson is “ understandable”
Canadas manufacturing base has been destroyed in ten years. Carney is elected on a spurious “Trump is evil” campaign and instead of meeting and negotiating flushes our trade down the toilet.
Canadians right now are failing financially. Repos. Mortgage failures. Broke developers. Practically No 2025/26 new housing permits
Carney lies. Pays off the media. They support the chicanery. Toronto Sun is supported by liberal payoffs. As are the rest of MSM.
NOT the Juno news. Not rebel news. Not blacklocks.
Just MSM.
Brian you are now working for Ms Batra who does a very good job. You also have substack. You tube on Bridge News and the Sun
That’s a lot of work to make ends meet. Thank goodness you able are able to do so .
Your property taxes have gone up 40% since the liberals came to power
4.7 million TFW and student visas expire this year. Three weeks to go.
The carney government doesn’t track them either in or out
In my view Westminster parliamentary democracy is a failure. UK. Australia I’ve lived there. Born in UK. Canadian
Please tell me how the political country club in Ottawa will get us out of this financial and political horror show THEY CREATED!
Brian, you need to watch tonight's reporting on Northern Perspectives: https://youtu.be/mELlliZdyMU?si=sKc1xZ6aj-6K07FS. You may change your mind about political interference by China. It's a deep dive documenting the links between the CCPs United Front Work Department and Canadian politicians in this latest debacle.
I cannot agree with Brian here. I will agree that a caucus member of any political party in parliament or any provincial or territorial legislature absolutely has a right to leave that caucus. The party leader can kick any elected member out of their political party's caucus for various reasons so any caucus member should have the reciprocal right to leave that caucus. But there must be a price to pay for such duplicity. That price should be an automatic triggering of a by-election in the constituency to which the bolting caucus member belongs. The by-election must be held within a maximum of 90 days of the member leaving caucus, no exceptions allowed. Floor crossing must be outright banned, no one can leave one political party to join another political party while being an active member of the government or the opposition. The Westminster system is badly flawed in Canada, it barely works to keep the United Kingdom united. And I don't care what Winston Churchill did or said, that's a hundred years ago and in a different country. No disrespect to Churchill, he was one of Britain's best Prime Ministers, in my view, and a magnificent orator. Also, previous examples of floor crossings did not have the dire consequences for Canada that these have. Once more Conservative jumping ship to join the Liberals gives them a technical majority. Two more MPs leaving their party to join the Liberals gives the Liberals the majority government they so desperately desire. Mr. Ma's ethnicity and his riding's previous foreign interference scandal leads one to be both, suspicious of his motives and how he acquired the nomination and the electoral vote to win the election in the first place. The Nova Scotia M.P. is, at best, a very soft and mushy Conservative, actually not a Conservative at all as it turns out. He was a closet Liberal all along, having betrayed both, the federal Conservative caucus and the voters in his riding. Pouting over not becoming the Speaker he has shown his true colours, he's only in politics for personal gain. Mr. Ma is even more flagrantly showing his true self, barely in office for sixth months and already crossing the floor to the side where he hopes to better enhance his personal position as a politician. Has to be one extremely shallow and self-serving human being and politician to have changed his stripes so fast. The Conservatives are better off without the likes of these two but are either of them truly interested in their constituents, it seems doubtful. And if Mark Carney manages to get his majority without have to go through another election to get it, how much damage will the Carney Liberals inflict upon this nation in the next 3½ years?
Agree with much of what you have to say but I think that a by-election being called because you get kicked out of caucus is is just as dangerous as floor crossing.
Instead of a ban, the person crossing is ineligible to vote and therefore no strategic asset to new party. So fine if the person becomes disenfranchised with the party leave but you have no leverage
Resign or sit as independent. Floor crossing is undemocratic, circumvents the will of people and incentivises corruption. The public will never know what these 2 rats got for crossing.
Churchill was not in these 2 crossers league .. or was he.. rat and re-rat.. funny..
i do get that.. policies are important. People vote for those and the person that support them. You know, like a QB on a football team. He makes decisions to get a win for the team.. too many losses hes replaced.. like politics..
My objection to the crossing is a disregard for his voters. The ones that put him there
We are sort of held hostage.. a by election should take place asap in his riding. Or maybe an unwrtten law, 2 year min the candidate must stay. Or resign and run again.
Ma lost the 1st time by a big margin.. his win this time was by a 1000 votes.. (wiki).
How many conservatives support him now hes a liberal? A poll please in his riding. Jmo
So if a person crosses the floor, there will be a bye-election. In the interim, there's no MP & so no MP's office or services. Don't sell that short, there's a lot they can do for constituents and many of them are competent and diligent. The MP goes through a bye-election, a royal pain and not cheap. What is crossing the floor? Suppose the MP decides to simply vote with the "new" party? Is crossing the floor when the old caucus or leader kicks one out? Then a leader can call a bye-election at will, do we really want to give the leader another way to enforce party discipline? Is party discipline so weak we need to strengthen it? Please accept my veto.
Some way of keeping a member somewhere near the platform and the desires of the community might be needed. Wouldn't some form of recall be better? And shouldn't it be a bit hard to do?
Politicians who would switch sides mid-term are more interested in self-preservation than in the interests of their constituents. The irony, as you pointed out already, is that they could simply be voted out in an election.
In the event of a ban being proposed, the question should be posed as being in the interest of Canadians. Having the question posed as simply whether or not to ban floor crossing could risk making the vote more about their own self-preservation.
An idea that comes to mind as well is perhaps a rule stating that they can change parties as long as they are not sitting in office. This makes it clearer to voters so they don't vote for one set of policies only to be surprised by opposing policies later on.
Successful floor crossers will gnerally be moved to a safe seat somewhere else if they intended to stay in politics and have no hope of winning in thier riding.
lolllllll, no surprise at all...just passing the baton back and forth. Its been going on for a long, long time now. Liberal, Tory same old story $$$ = kebec power. NO democracy. 100s of billions stolen out of Alberta and Sask., BC, Ont. since the 1960s, 70s. Equalization ( govt money laundering)=(kebek takes over 50% every single year) became entrenched in his commie charter = kebek communist Pierre Trudeaus constitution of 1982. Since then, 25 years of Liberal govts have made things worse. 18 years of 'Conservative' govts, the exact same thing. Kebeks Charter = 10s of billions stolen out of Ottawa yearly and funneled into quebec and other metis (they are not french) – towns and companies, all across the country every year, all disguised as grants, subsides, equalization, transfers, bilingualism (code for french) – only outside quebec while kebec bans our language, history = bills 22, 178, 101, 96. Multiculturalism (only outside kebec), massive government growth, control, censorship, surveillance, taxes and debt. Canada now just liberals masquerading as conservatives, the rest, communists masquerading as liberals. ’French power’ in all provinces. They are revising, eliminating our BNA, UEL history all over the country as they rename, remove all things English, Scottish. Election fraud? YES, guaranteed. Why? Simple, they lie about everything. Why? Bigoted = Socialist = Marxist = commie = kebec runs the nation. This IS the problem, and No party, NO ‘leader’ will touch it. ‘Cons’ Poliver, Ford ? Nothing, not a word. “First quebec, and Ottawa and then the entire country” ‘french power..." PET. $ The commie - fascist takeover of Canada and when it began....proof – context- https://beforeitsnews.com/power-elite/2012/01/canada-how-the-communists-took-control-1637973.html Rise up, plan, train....revolt...Somebody, anybody...? HELP
Surely the main point is that an MP was elected by the constituents for the party/values he campaigned under .. if he subsequently chooses to change parties then all those who voted for him are no longer being represented by someone with their values … a by-election would be the fairest way to go… the people could then choose to follow the MP or vote for someone else to represent them…. An expensive proposition, I know, but certainly more democratic than having one's wishes hijacked without any recourse.
Yes it should be banned. The Majority of us are voting for a party not a candidate. When the candidate decides that they are switching sides they need to resign and a by-election should be triggered. The current system is unfair to voters and open to bribery and corruption. Time to end this practice.
Voting for the party is a construct. By definition the vote is for the candidate.
Then the candidate needs to consult with the voters first, but technicality or not, when most of us vote we are voting along party lines. If my
MP switched parties after being voted into office I would be extremely pissed off and consider it treachery to the highest degree, a betrayal of people who supported the candidate to win a seat in Parliament.
Looks like the CCP is still running the hill 🤔.
lollllllllllll
A solution that might suit everyone is to have recalled legislation so if the voters are unhappy with the floor crossing they can recall the member.
Recall legislation has generally been pointless as it si easy to override.
I think you just painted a really flattering picture of MP Ma and his adjacent riding liberal friend.
The Ma floor crossing has a tinge of CCP influence.
But whatever. Chinese “ police stations”. Etc. the tinge is more like “ stench”
Ottawa really is a political country club of elitists and some Rasputin style skilled political strategists.
What you really should address with your political knowledge, is the question of how effective a Westminster parliamentary system can be? Ours has clearly been suborned and manipulated by a minority government on a repressive and repetitive basis.
As for the perennial floor crosser Churchill, he was both liberal and conservative in politics far longer than practically anyone in Canadian politics.
64 years total ;20 as a liberal, 44 as a conservative.
How long has Outremont or Ma been in politics? Carney?
Is to laugh, to bring up
Churchill to justify this nonsense. A liberal talking point.
This entire Canadian political system is an incestuous elitist swamp.
How can it be fixed? Or do you think Brian Lilley, it’s ok ?
Nothing to see here?
Are you really claiming that I'm spewing Liberal talking points?
Yes. If telling us that Mp Ma is buddies with Hodgson and that’s how they convivially came to the “cross the floor” decision. Thats a liberal talking point. I said it was a really flattering picture you painted here. This is not “ conspiracy”. Ma met with the Chinese communist party ambassador to Canada three days prior to the crossing. So the issue of CCP interference is real.
This crossing is not some Churchillian expression of conscience.
Clearly you should not take umbrage if I point out the issues and the similarities in your analysis.
It’s a debate.
Brian I can’t leave this unsaid.
Here’s the thing. I would rather you address serious issues than worry about my taking your “ they were just buddies “ point seriously.
In these substack writings there are different points of view. Mostly politely expressed.
Terry Glavin is a serious resource of research and opinion on Chinese CP interference.
He also has TDS and cannot accept any positive review of Trumps presidency.
How do I know this ? When I posted as a subscriber that Trump had done some seriously positive actions Mr Glavin asked me not to subscribe and offered to refund my subscription.
I told Terry to keep the money and unsubscribed.
My closest friend is Chinese Canadian. An honourable person who contributes serious to the community among other things. Suffers from almost terminal TDS.
That’s life.
My next door neighbour is a seriously intelligent, well fixed , decent human being. Thinks Carney is the second coming of economic reason and goodness.
That’s life.
Here’s the thing: if I disagree with you , should I avoid discussing the disagreement ? I avoid it with my neighbour . I keep the peace with my Chinese friend by avoiding the TDS issue.
I don’t think you ( to tell the truth ) understand how totally the political system in Canada is failing its citizens.
Coverups. Lies. Deceits.
Must I avoid “ delicate”topics with you ?
I can’t let this go. You are a political expert. Let me give you examples as to how Westminster parliamentary democracy is failing Canada.
Covid mandates.
Dr Tam” no human to human transmission”. “ closing borders won’t stop the spread”. “ social distancing “. All those statements are lies or wrong or just made up.
Two Chinese scientists conspired with a Chinese military doctor in a level ; lab in Winnipeg in the beginning of this COVID scourge.
Deported. Covered up
In face the Covid scourge was indeed a man made gain of function research endeavour in Wuhan that went horribly wrong
Three years ago Facebook would censor my opinion on this and the Toronto Sun no less would call it a conspiracy theory.
What is the political truth?
Deceit
When Canadians protested mandates?
PM refuses to meet protestors.
When protest continues seizes bank accounts and invokes emergency powers. Unconstitutionally.
What is the political truth?
Gang up on Canadians with an NDP liberal “agreement” and avoid electoral defeat.
Persecute Lich and Barber for five years now?
Premier Ford stands up for this
Political lawfare.
Calls an election early;reelected.
The political system in Canada rewards lies, deceit and chicanery with impunity.
Citizens are crushed for speaking up.
How about Kamloops “ dead indigenous children’s graves”?
A lie.
Trudeau puts flags at half mast; takes a photo op with a teddy bear. 100’s of churches are burned to the ground.
He says it the arson is “ understandable”
Canadas manufacturing base has been destroyed in ten years. Carney is elected on a spurious “Trump is evil” campaign and instead of meeting and negotiating flushes our trade down the toilet.
Canadians right now are failing financially. Repos. Mortgage failures. Broke developers. Practically No 2025/26 new housing permits
Carney lies. Pays off the media. They support the chicanery. Toronto Sun is supported by liberal payoffs. As are the rest of MSM.
NOT the Juno news. Not rebel news. Not blacklocks.
Just MSM.
Brian you are now working for Ms Batra who does a very good job. You also have substack. You tube on Bridge News and the Sun
That’s a lot of work to make ends meet. Thank goodness you able are able to do so .
Your property taxes have gone up 40% since the liberals came to power
4.7 million TFW and student visas expire this year. Three weeks to go.
The carney government doesn’t track them either in or out
In my view Westminster parliamentary democracy is a failure. UK. Australia I’ve lived there. Born in UK. Canadian
Please tell me how the political country club in Ottawa will get us out of this financial and political horror show THEY CREATED!
Brian, you need to watch tonight's reporting on Northern Perspectives: https://youtu.be/mELlliZdyMU?si=sKc1xZ6aj-6K07FS. You may change your mind about political interference by China. It's a deep dive documenting the links between the CCPs United Front Work Department and Canadian politicians in this latest debacle.
I cannot agree with Brian here. I will agree that a caucus member of any political party in parliament or any provincial or territorial legislature absolutely has a right to leave that caucus. The party leader can kick any elected member out of their political party's caucus for various reasons so any caucus member should have the reciprocal right to leave that caucus. But there must be a price to pay for such duplicity. That price should be an automatic triggering of a by-election in the constituency to which the bolting caucus member belongs. The by-election must be held within a maximum of 90 days of the member leaving caucus, no exceptions allowed. Floor crossing must be outright banned, no one can leave one political party to join another political party while being an active member of the government or the opposition. The Westminster system is badly flawed in Canada, it barely works to keep the United Kingdom united. And I don't care what Winston Churchill did or said, that's a hundred years ago and in a different country. No disrespect to Churchill, he was one of Britain's best Prime Ministers, in my view, and a magnificent orator. Also, previous examples of floor crossings did not have the dire consequences for Canada that these have. Once more Conservative jumping ship to join the Liberals gives them a technical majority. Two more MPs leaving their party to join the Liberals gives the Liberals the majority government they so desperately desire. Mr. Ma's ethnicity and his riding's previous foreign interference scandal leads one to be both, suspicious of his motives and how he acquired the nomination and the electoral vote to win the election in the first place. The Nova Scotia M.P. is, at best, a very soft and mushy Conservative, actually not a Conservative at all as it turns out. He was a closet Liberal all along, having betrayed both, the federal Conservative caucus and the voters in his riding. Pouting over not becoming the Speaker he has shown his true colours, he's only in politics for personal gain. Mr. Ma is even more flagrantly showing his true self, barely in office for sixth months and already crossing the floor to the side where he hopes to better enhance his personal position as a politician. Has to be one extremely shallow and self-serving human being and politician to have changed his stripes so fast. The Conservatives are better off without the likes of these two but are either of them truly interested in their constituents, it seems doubtful. And if Mark Carney manages to get his majority without have to go through another election to get it, how much damage will the Carney Liberals inflict upon this nation in the next 3½ years?
Agree with much of what you have to say but I think that a by-election being called because you get kicked out of caucus is is just as dangerous as floor crossing.
Instead of a ban, the person crossing is ineligible to vote and therefore no strategic asset to new party. So fine if the person becomes disenfranchised with the party leave but you have no leverage
Does that not infringe on the rights and freedoms of the individual?
Resign or sit as independent. Floor crossing is undemocratic, circumvents the will of people and incentivises corruption. The public will never know what these 2 rats got for crossing.
Some might argue that the party systems circumvents the selection of solid local candidates.
Yes it should be banned without a doubt. They just screw all their voters. Ban it!!!
Churchill was not in these 2 crossers league .. or was he.. rat and re-rat.. funny..
i do get that.. policies are important. People vote for those and the person that support them. You know, like a QB on a football team. He makes decisions to get a win for the team.. too many losses hes replaced.. like politics..
My objection to the crossing is a disregard for his voters. The ones that put him there
We are sort of held hostage.. a by election should take place asap in his riding. Or maybe an unwrtten law, 2 year min the candidate must stay. Or resign and run again.
Ma lost the 1st time by a big margin.. his win this time was by a 1000 votes.. (wiki).
How many conservatives support him now hes a liberal? A poll please in his riding. Jmo
So if a person crosses the floor, there will be a bye-election. In the interim, there's no MP & so no MP's office or services. Don't sell that short, there's a lot they can do for constituents and many of them are competent and diligent. The MP goes through a bye-election, a royal pain and not cheap. What is crossing the floor? Suppose the MP decides to simply vote with the "new" party? Is crossing the floor when the old caucus or leader kicks one out? Then a leader can call a bye-election at will, do we really want to give the leader another way to enforce party discipline? Is party discipline so weak we need to strengthen it? Please accept my veto.
Some way of keeping a member somewhere near the platform and the desires of the community might be needed. Wouldn't some form of recall be better? And shouldn't it be a bit hard to do?
Politicians who would switch sides mid-term are more interested in self-preservation than in the interests of their constituents. The irony, as you pointed out already, is that they could simply be voted out in an election.
In the event of a ban being proposed, the question should be posed as being in the interest of Canadians. Having the question posed as simply whether or not to ban floor crossing could risk making the vote more about their own self-preservation.
An idea that comes to mind as well is perhaps a rule stating that they can change parties as long as they are not sitting in office. This makes it clearer to voters so they don't vote for one set of policies only to be surprised by opposing policies later on.
Successful floor crossers will gnerally be moved to a safe seat somewhere else if they intended to stay in politics and have no hope of winning in thier riding.
Too late now. There will always be a liberal government in Canada. Trudeau said it. They control elections Canada.
sigh.... Elections canada has nothing to do with one party not being able to win enough votes to win an election (repeatedly).
I don't agree with floor crossing when the Chinese Communist Party is involved!!!
lolllllll, no surprise at all...just passing the baton back and forth. Its been going on for a long, long time now. Liberal, Tory same old story $$$ = kebec power. NO democracy. 100s of billions stolen out of Alberta and Sask., BC, Ont. since the 1960s, 70s. Equalization ( govt money laundering)=(kebek takes over 50% every single year) became entrenched in his commie charter = kebek communist Pierre Trudeaus constitution of 1982. Since then, 25 years of Liberal govts have made things worse. 18 years of 'Conservative' govts, the exact same thing. Kebeks Charter = 10s of billions stolen out of Ottawa yearly and funneled into quebec and other metis (they are not french) – towns and companies, all across the country every year, all disguised as grants, subsides, equalization, transfers, bilingualism (code for french) – only outside quebec while kebec bans our language, history = bills 22, 178, 101, 96. Multiculturalism (only outside kebec), massive government growth, control, censorship, surveillance, taxes and debt. Canada now just liberals masquerading as conservatives, the rest, communists masquerading as liberals. ’French power’ in all provinces. They are revising, eliminating our BNA, UEL history all over the country as they rename, remove all things English, Scottish. Election fraud? YES, guaranteed. Why? Simple, they lie about everything. Why? Bigoted = Socialist = Marxist = commie = kebec runs the nation. This IS the problem, and No party, NO ‘leader’ will touch it. ‘Cons’ Poliver, Ford ? Nothing, not a word. “First quebec, and Ottawa and then the entire country” ‘french power..." PET. $ The commie - fascist takeover of Canada and when it began....proof – context- https://beforeitsnews.com/power-elite/2012/01/canada-how-the-communists-took-control-1637973.html Rise up, plan, train....revolt...Somebody, anybody...? HELP