Someone elsewhere posted that this was a set up. That the liberals ran Yuen against Ma knowing Ma would win and then he would defect at the most opportune time. Don Valley north was obviously compromised by Chinese interference and the liberals won that riding. Now Markham.
I’m not scared. Angry? Yes. CCP has its fingers all over this. Ms Ferreri reports that Ma met with the CCP ambassador three days ago.
Chinese” police stations” still operate in Canada.
Something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark here. I think Wyatt Claypool was right when he said this situation isn't a Pierre leadership problem, it's a Canadian corruption problem. But the optics of this are very bad and the media are going to have an absolute field day with this, like they just got an early Christmas present. However, it's still not time to change leaders. If we did, why exactly would we be doing so? Because Liberals told us to, nothing more. And I don't see it as a good idea for conservatives to let Libs decide for us who will be our party's leader. I'm going to the convention in January and so far I will still confidently cast my vote in favour of Pierre's leadership.
I will add, because I can't edit my comment, that I think these crossings do show that the CPC needs to take *very* seriously the discontent of ridings over the candidate nomination process. They need to trust more the actual conservative people in the ridings to choose their candidates organically.
Very good points made by the Modern Mantuamaker. I believe Ma to be a douche bag, and that's the nicest thing I can say. He was fine crapping all over the Liberals not so long ago and now wants to join them. Douche bags of a feather stick together.
My first thought was also CCP. I have spent the week being amazed that it seems every single thing the liberals do is evil, and I mean evil. There is not one piece of legislation that isn’t authoritarian or corrupt in some way. They lie, scheme and cheat. It’s very demoralizing but that’s why we can’t give in to it.
This sounds about right. He better have got a lot of pieces of silver because he will be a footnote in 3.5 years and I can't even find a bio on him as to what he did before becoming a member of parliament.
Poilievre is a thorn to the Liberals The Butts liberal strategy is to divide , anger and destabilize voters. Discredit conservatives. Control and ideology is their goal. Subservient electorate. Compliant media. It’s disastrous.
26,000 housing tradespeople lost their jobs this fall according to one report.
Practically no new housing starts. Developers broke. Condo market collapsed.
4.7 million EXPIRED TFW and student visas this year. UNTRACKED.
Billions in profligate waste and abuse of taxpayers dollars.
3/4 a million for one plane ride for Carney to have a Gaza peace photo op.
If this was a fictional account it would be considered unbelievable.
Something has to break. This liberal political corruption is unsustainable.
The CCP may also be reminding Chinese heritage politicians how things really are. According to Chinese law their first allegiance is to China. If they fail to comply, not only do they go after the politician, they threaten his family here and in China.
As for Pierre if we are to go to a possible spring election. Who would be better to lead the Conservative Party? Another O’Toole? I think not. Conservatives love Pierre and stand by him. I belong to many Conservative groups and Poilievre groups we stand with Pierre. There is something out there that Michelle Ferreri posted about Ma. It isn’t good. We will wait and see what happens.
I think the whole point of this floor crossing exercise is that there will not be a spring election. It is obvious Carney is not great at playing politics and doesn't not enjoy horse trading needed to make a minority work.
He can guarantee a majority through floor crossing, less likely through election.
Canada is not a democracy. When a duly elected MP can switch sides, that doesn’t represent his constituents. And just because he said he consulted them doesn’t mean the majority of them wanted him to switch. What did Carnage promise him? Ugh. Slimey politicians.
I think his reason is really a choice between: what did Carney promise? What did the CCP promise? What did the CCP threaten? Or some combination thereof.
This is unfolding exactly how I thought it would. As soon as the budget passed, I said, "well, that just gives Carney more time to buy more MPs". But, I get it, the Conservatives are between a rock and a hard place. Surrounded by corruption...fueled by the state-owned media. We need a miracle to wake people up.
The way I look at this is - what are the Liberals so afraid of with Pierre P. as leader? That he actually might reverse some of their crazy ideas? If PP can't win a Conservative government then who could? He drew huge crowds of supporters. This Ma guy crossing the floor - something is very sketchy about this and definitely not right. Why did he run as a Conservative in the first place? I'd say the CCP has a play in this and they prefer a Liberal government. He needed to step down, not cross the floor. All this BS must be stopped by these floor crossers.
I may be getting a bit tinfoil hat-like about this but I can't help but feel the constant, all-out attacks against Pierre and against a conservative gov't, which seems more ramped up than I've ever seen before (I'm 48), is about more than policy. I've never seen a party so utterly desperate to cling to power before. I think it's very possible there are things - criminal things - they want to keep hidden. I do also think they are addicted to power for power's sake and how they can enrich themselves and feed their egos with it but it still feels like more than that. They are *afraid* to lose power.
Keep in mind that Trudeau has about 98 senate appointees so getting anything conservative passed there will be miraculous. The Westminster system needs to be ended.
Anyone with 1/2 a brain knows the communist party of China, whom Carney & Trudeau have embraced, are behind this other snake slithering across the floor to the Liberals. WAKE UP CANADA we are under attack & being blatantly destroyed. I honestly can't believe so many people believe what's happening in Canada is a good thing.Multimillionaires should never be allowed to run a country because they're only concerned with their own profit.God help Canada
One of the biggest flashpoints of public discontent is the mess in the immigration system. The fact that the government doesn't even know how many temporary foreigners are in Canada is bad enough but the notion to fast track these unplanned immigration applicants to clear up the backlog is an affront to those who languish on normal immigration queues.
This circles back to Mr. Wiseman, one of the masterminds of a huge surge in immigration with intent to double our population going forward. The Liberal Party has belatedly agreed that the immigration surge of their making has produced a crisis, with knock off effects on the job market, housing and social safety net obligations.
Does this make Mr. Wiseman a good choice for being the point man in Washington?
All I can say to that is that the government has gone to lengths to say they don't endorse the Century Initiative as government policy. They have pulled back on immigration numbers but only somewhat, it's still around 400,000 annual permanent residents and we don't have solid numbers for TFW, students or asylum seekers.
True. The Liberals have been very, very careful to never acknowledge that they accept(ed) or endorse(ed) the Century Initiative immigration strategy.
In this case actions speak louder than words, as Trudeau and his immigration ministers views fell in line with the concept. (It must also be noted that Canadian business leaders and university officials were also pushing for large numbers of temporary workers and students.)
On CPAC in September Carney said he'd be sticking with 7% per Canada population for going on two more years....and then down to 5%. So that means about 2.9 million coming in again next year. That's unworkable. 4.9 million visa holders, already expired or expiring this year...good luck with them leaving. Who's going to enforce that? Close to 500,000 asylum cases on the books....waiting....how many on the dole. That's a 20+ year paperwork backlog. As to the 400,00 number don't forget the fine print....another 115,00 in the Immigration Protection Plan.
If you like the Goldman Sachs(institution that practically brought the world financial system to a crashing halt) bros like Guzman, Hodgson and Carney, you will love an ex Blackrock banker like Wiseman as ambassador to the US It is so cute that the NDP handed the fate of the country to these folks.
CCP assets infect all party's. Conservatives must be better at vetting their candidates. Maybe choose people who were actually born here instead of supposed dissidents from other countries, not that that would have helped with Detriment.
I put myself in his shoes and was chilled by the compromises I would have to submit to to be called a Liberal. From my chair, I would have to willfully spread slime over everything I say and do. It would all be tainted by the irrationality of the “Progressive” mindset that the Liberals wear like a snotty homeless cloak, tattered and holed, barely usable, and bordering on foolish.
Agreed. Clearly a CCP plant from the start. We just did not expect the chinese election interference to pre presented this way. Carney's immediate China trips on our dime, when he was appointed Liberal leader have proven successful
Any M.P. that crosses the floor should immediately be removed and a bi-election called in that riding, another person from that Party is placed in that seat while an election is held! Traitors need to be removed. The voters in that riding need to have their voice! The only way we will end possible corruption or manipulation of our political system! Transparency and accountability must be returned or this country is damned! Western Canada needs to seriously be considering escaping from this federal 💩 show!
The Conservative party are small 'c' conservatives....Liberal lite as it were. I like Pierre, he's a likeable guy and smart as well. 30 years ago in that Canada he'd be a great PM. Now his routine ain't working. Locally in the last election we had Brycen Jenkins going up against Sean Fraser. I went to the party get togethers and talked policy strategy etc. Right away I knew he was going to lose. They were playing it safe, discussing housing and such....c'mon you got to go for the throat...they are...hit 'em on mass immigration. And there was a much better candidate the party didn't pick. Oh well. 2 and a half years ago I talked with Dr Ellis, then Shadow Minister of Health in Truro. We agreed the Winnipeg Lab thing was filled with traitors. Okay, what about the clot shot....what about pushing it on children...c'mon you're a Doctor. Let's call out this whole insane authoritarian reaction.... Nada....nothing. Now you put someone like Dallas Brodie who's got that hot ice in her veins to go up against the politicial slime infesting our country at every level.....but that's not going to happen. Canada's hooped...at this point I don't even know Alberta separating would even wake up the rest of the country.
I truly do not understand statements like "Pierre s routine isn't working". I'm not a dyed in the wool conservative , but I see him as being honest, revealing, hard working, resilient..what should he change in his "routine". What I can't get us why Canadians are sabotaging Canada!?
If you've ever seen him speak live more than once, you'll notice a repititious pattern....a schtick....a routine. Like other politicians he's got more than a few that he uses depending on the situation. He's an excellent parlimentarian....he knows his history, all the in's and out's of creating, tabling and passing legislation, and has an excellent handle on how a governing body should work. He would make an excellent minister in numerous portfolios....but he's not a leader. He's always behind the curve on stated positions....he waits till the research data comes in than makes a statement. He's comfortable with the Westminister system...I'm not...it needs drastic improvements. He likes wearing funny hats and playing dress up for different ethnic groups....that waters down his singularity. He chewed out his caucus for hanging with Christine Anderson, member of the EU for Germany....called her vile and racist. Really Pierre.....someone who's stood for stopping the clot shot, protecting children, and being realistic about mass immigration and the damage done to her country. Ukraine...still committed to that fiasco. He's not reading the bigger multi polar world view. Spring 2024 let's end the woke ideology.... just got around Oct. 2025 to DEI in the workplace. Behind the curve....again...and again. Like I said....if they ran Dallas Brodie I'd consider her....she's got bigger balls than Pierre.
I think all politicians have a "shtick," when you speak so frequently, it is inevitable. The isse is that the "shtick" states the basic truths that we need in contrast with the horrible bullshit coming from team Liberal and NDP and unfortunately..the Block. Elizabeth May is just an idiot. You are correct..not everything Pierre is perfect..I see it, but I see his offerings as being more Canadian, more economically sound, more useful, less theft, that what our non citizen immigrants and uninformed boomers gave us. Carney is a blatant lier, cheat, thief and EU plant. Surely he was NOT the better choice.
I voted for Leslyn Lewis in the last PC leadership race. She ticked a bunch of boxes for me and even more since she's spoken out on leaving the UN and notably the WHO. Raquel Dancho is another I've noticed....she's got some moxie. And yeah, Carney is your basic globalist pond scum, with a very slick machine behind him to keep the curtain drawn.
The fiasco includes not mentioning or taking into account what lead up to the war; ignoring the Minsk accords,the overthrow of the duly elected gov't of Ukraine by a color revolution backed by the C.I.A. in 2014 and then the bombing of Russian speaking cities and towns in the eastern provinces for the next 7 years resulting in the death of some 15,000 people. Then when the S.M.O. (Special Military Operation) started (Feb. 2022) very quickly there were peace talks on the table (most notably in Turkey) which proceded for a couple months. A visit by Boris Johnson in April 2022, encouraged Zelenskly to keep on fighting, backed up by promises of weapons, logistical support and of course, lots of cash. So the Neo Cons in D.C. got their proxy war with Russia and varioius European countries joined in the effort. And on and on it went. Fiasco...most assuredly. A never ending slaughter of the 1st degree....most definitely.
Let's see now....I said....Ukraine....(Pierre) still committed to that fiasco. That's right he still is. You spoke of protecting democracy in Europe and Putin is bad etc. It's always a good idea to put things in perspective (thus I wrote what I wrote....whether or not you think it's of any worth, that's up to you). As to Poilievre's leadership ability I posit he is not a good leader....in part because by keeping the Ukraine bloodbath going, he/we are ignoring the ascendancy of the BRICS organization of nation states and the power they are collecting.
Someone elsewhere posted that this was a set up. That the liberals ran Yuen against Ma knowing Ma would win and then he would defect at the most opportune time. Don Valley north was obviously compromised by Chinese interference and the liberals won that riding. Now Markham.
I’m not scared. Angry? Yes. CCP has its fingers all over this. Ms Ferreri reports that Ma met with the CCP ambassador three days ago.
Chinese” police stations” still operate in Canada.
Prove me wrong
Something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark here. I think Wyatt Claypool was right when he said this situation isn't a Pierre leadership problem, it's a Canadian corruption problem. But the optics of this are very bad and the media are going to have an absolute field day with this, like they just got an early Christmas present. However, it's still not time to change leaders. If we did, why exactly would we be doing so? Because Liberals told us to, nothing more. And I don't see it as a good idea for conservatives to let Libs decide for us who will be our party's leader. I'm going to the convention in January and so far I will still confidently cast my vote in favour of Pierre's leadership.
I will add, because I can't edit my comment, that I think these crossings do show that the CPC needs to take *very* seriously the discontent of ridings over the candidate nomination process. They need to trust more the actual conservative people in the ridings to choose their candidates organically.
Very good points made by the Modern Mantuamaker. I believe Ma to be a douche bag, and that's the nicest thing I can say. He was fine crapping all over the Liberals not so long ago and now wants to join them. Douche bags of a feather stick together.
My first thought was also CCP. I have spent the week being amazed that it seems every single thing the liberals do is evil, and I mean evil. There is not one piece of legislation that isn’t authoritarian or corrupt in some way. They lie, scheme and cheat. It’s very demoralizing but that’s why we can’t give in to it.
This sounds about right. He better have got a lot of pieces of silver because he will be a footnote in 3.5 years and I can't even find a bio on him as to what he did before becoming a member of parliament.
https://www.thebureau.news/p/csis-and-toronto-police-believe-canadian
and today
https://open.substack.com/pub/thebureau/p/too-close-for-comfort-carney-floor?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
I looked also.. nothing! Born in hong kong ..
And that is the problem
Yes, to a point.
Will look good on him!
https://www.thebureau.news/p/csis-and-toronto-police-believe-canadian
Poilievre is a thorn to the Liberals The Butts liberal strategy is to divide , anger and destabilize voters. Discredit conservatives. Control and ideology is their goal. Subservient electorate. Compliant media. It’s disastrous.
26,000 housing tradespeople lost their jobs this fall according to one report.
Practically no new housing starts. Developers broke. Condo market collapsed.
4.7 million EXPIRED TFW and student visas this year. UNTRACKED.
Billions in profligate waste and abuse of taxpayers dollars.
3/4 a million for one plane ride for Carney to have a Gaza peace photo op.
If this was a fictional account it would be considered unbelievable.
Something has to break. This liberal political corruption is unsustainable.
The CCP may also be reminding Chinese heritage politicians how things really are. According to Chinese law their first allegiance is to China. If they fail to comply, not only do they go after the politician, they threaten his family here and in China.
As for Pierre if we are to go to a possible spring election. Who would be better to lead the Conservative Party? Another O’Toole? I think not. Conservatives love Pierre and stand by him. I belong to many Conservative groups and Poilievre groups we stand with Pierre. There is something out there that Michelle Ferreri posted about Ma. It isn’t good. We will wait and see what happens.
The media will find ways to vilify any Conservative leader.
I think the whole point of this floor crossing exercise is that there will not be a spring election. It is obvious Carney is not great at playing politics and doesn't not enjoy horse trading needed to make a minority work.
He can guarantee a majority through floor crossing, less likely through election.
MSM want people to think Pierre is not well liked at all.
Canada is not a democracy. When a duly elected MP can switch sides, that doesn’t represent his constituents. And just because he said he consulted them doesn’t mean the majority of them wanted him to switch. What did Carnage promise him? Ugh. Slimey politicians.
I think his reason is really a choice between: what did Carney promise? What did the CCP promise? What did the CCP threaten? Or some combination thereof.
There was a text about chineese immigration being held up or cancelled..it could be a reason..Carney promised to speed up. Jmo
I think the comment made by Ma was the opposite in that the libs refused to visit the ask and him and the conservatives would keep fighting.
Irene, MA said he consulted his constituents. They voted for him as a Conservative so shy would he have to consult them. Lying piece of garbage.
Exactly, im sure not all were on board. Ma lies.. to them both.
What did China offer?
Something he couldn’t refuse?
This is unfolding exactly how I thought it would. As soon as the budget passed, I said, "well, that just gives Carney more time to buy more MPs". But, I get it, the Conservatives are between a rock and a hard place. Surrounded by corruption...fueled by the state-owned media. We need a miracle to wake people up.
The way I look at this is - what are the Liberals so afraid of with Pierre P. as leader? That he actually might reverse some of their crazy ideas? If PP can't win a Conservative government then who could? He drew huge crowds of supporters. This Ma guy crossing the floor - something is very sketchy about this and definitely not right. Why did he run as a Conservative in the first place? I'd say the CCP has a play in this and they prefer a Liberal government. He needed to step down, not cross the floor. All this BS must be stopped by these floor crossers.
I may be getting a bit tinfoil hat-like about this but I can't help but feel the constant, all-out attacks against Pierre and against a conservative gov't, which seems more ramped up than I've ever seen before (I'm 48), is about more than policy. I've never seen a party so utterly desperate to cling to power before. I think it's very possible there are things - criminal things - they want to keep hidden. I do also think they are addicted to power for power's sake and how they can enrich themselves and feed their egos with it but it still feels like more than that. They are *afraid* to lose power.
Your instincts are correct. Nothing tinfoil at all.
I think you are right Love of Freedom. Pierre is a very clever man and I believe the Liberals are afraid of that.
Keep in mind that Trudeau has about 98 senate appointees so getting anything conservative passed there will be miraculous. The Westminster system needs to be ended.
Anyone with 1/2 a brain knows the communist party of China, whom Carney & Trudeau have embraced, are behind this other snake slithering across the floor to the Liberals. WAKE UP CANADA we are under attack & being blatantly destroyed. I honestly can't believe so many people believe what's happening in Canada is a good thing.Multimillionaires should never be allowed to run a country because they're only concerned with their own profit.God help Canada
A deceitful backstabber joins the Liberal party no surprise there. No values! No honesty! No credibility!
One of the biggest flashpoints of public discontent is the mess in the immigration system. The fact that the government doesn't even know how many temporary foreigners are in Canada is bad enough but the notion to fast track these unplanned immigration applicants to clear up the backlog is an affront to those who languish on normal immigration queues.
This circles back to Mr. Wiseman, one of the masterminds of a huge surge in immigration with intent to double our population going forward. The Liberal Party has belatedly agreed that the immigration surge of their making has produced a crisis, with knock off effects on the job market, housing and social safety net obligations.
Does this make Mr. Wiseman a good choice for being the point man in Washington?
All I can say to that is that the government has gone to lengths to say they don't endorse the Century Initiative as government policy. They have pulled back on immigration numbers but only somewhat, it's still around 400,000 annual permanent residents and we don't have solid numbers for TFW, students or asylum seekers.
True. The Liberals have been very, very careful to never acknowledge that they accept(ed) or endorse(ed) the Century Initiative immigration strategy.
In this case actions speak louder than words, as Trudeau and his immigration ministers views fell in line with the concept. (It must also be noted that Canadian business leaders and university officials were also pushing for large numbers of temporary workers and students.)
On CPAC in September Carney said he'd be sticking with 7% per Canada population for going on two more years....and then down to 5%. So that means about 2.9 million coming in again next year. That's unworkable. 4.9 million visa holders, already expired or expiring this year...good luck with them leaving. Who's going to enforce that? Close to 500,000 asylum cases on the books....waiting....how many on the dole. That's a 20+ year paperwork backlog. As to the 400,00 number don't forget the fine print....another 115,00 in the Immigration Protection Plan.
Too Close for Comfort:
Carney Floor Crosser Comes From a Riding Tainted by PRC Interference……
https://www.thebureau.news/p/too-close-for-comfort-carney-floor?r=595hev&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true
Read The Bureau has information on Ma.
If you like the Goldman Sachs(institution that practically brought the world financial system to a crashing halt) bros like Guzman, Hodgson and Carney, you will love an ex Blackrock banker like Wiseman as ambassador to the US It is so cute that the NDP handed the fate of the country to these folks.
CCP assets infect all party's. Conservatives must be better at vetting their candidates. Maybe choose people who were actually born here instead of supposed dissidents from other countries, not that that would have helped with Detriment.
This Ma guy most likely is tied to China influence. I am sure he’s getting some $ off this traitor move.
I put myself in his shoes and was chilled by the compromises I would have to submit to to be called a Liberal. From my chair, I would have to willfully spread slime over everything I say and do. It would all be tainted by the irrationality of the “Progressive” mindset that the Liberals wear like a snotty homeless cloak, tattered and holed, barely usable, and bordering on foolish.
Agreed. Clearly a CCP plant from the start. We just did not expect the chinese election interference to pre presented this way. Carney's immediate China trips on our dime, when he was appointed Liberal leader have proven successful
Any M.P. that crosses the floor should immediately be removed and a bi-election called in that riding, another person from that Party is placed in that seat while an election is held! Traitors need to be removed. The voters in that riding need to have their voice! The only way we will end possible corruption or manipulation of our political system! Transparency and accountability must be returned or this country is damned! Western Canada needs to seriously be considering escaping from this federal 💩 show!
The Conservative party are small 'c' conservatives....Liberal lite as it were. I like Pierre, he's a likeable guy and smart as well. 30 years ago in that Canada he'd be a great PM. Now his routine ain't working. Locally in the last election we had Brycen Jenkins going up against Sean Fraser. I went to the party get togethers and talked policy strategy etc. Right away I knew he was going to lose. They were playing it safe, discussing housing and such....c'mon you got to go for the throat...they are...hit 'em on mass immigration. And there was a much better candidate the party didn't pick. Oh well. 2 and a half years ago I talked with Dr Ellis, then Shadow Minister of Health in Truro. We agreed the Winnipeg Lab thing was filled with traitors. Okay, what about the clot shot....what about pushing it on children...c'mon you're a Doctor. Let's call out this whole insane authoritarian reaction.... Nada....nothing. Now you put someone like Dallas Brodie who's got that hot ice in her veins to go up against the politicial slime infesting our country at every level.....but that's not going to happen. Canada's hooped...at this point I don't even know Alberta separating would even wake up the rest of the country.
I truly do not understand statements like "Pierre s routine isn't working". I'm not a dyed in the wool conservative , but I see him as being honest, revealing, hard working, resilient..what should he change in his "routine". What I can't get us why Canadians are sabotaging Canada!?
If you've ever seen him speak live more than once, you'll notice a repititious pattern....a schtick....a routine. Like other politicians he's got more than a few that he uses depending on the situation. He's an excellent parlimentarian....he knows his history, all the in's and out's of creating, tabling and passing legislation, and has an excellent handle on how a governing body should work. He would make an excellent minister in numerous portfolios....but he's not a leader. He's always behind the curve on stated positions....he waits till the research data comes in than makes a statement. He's comfortable with the Westminister system...I'm not...it needs drastic improvements. He likes wearing funny hats and playing dress up for different ethnic groups....that waters down his singularity. He chewed out his caucus for hanging with Christine Anderson, member of the EU for Germany....called her vile and racist. Really Pierre.....someone who's stood for stopping the clot shot, protecting children, and being realistic about mass immigration and the damage done to her country. Ukraine...still committed to that fiasco. He's not reading the bigger multi polar world view. Spring 2024 let's end the woke ideology.... just got around Oct. 2025 to DEI in the workplace. Behind the curve....again...and again. Like I said....if they ran Dallas Brodie I'd consider her....she's got bigger balls than Pierre.
I think all politicians have a "shtick," when you speak so frequently, it is inevitable. The isse is that the "shtick" states the basic truths that we need in contrast with the horrible bullshit coming from team Liberal and NDP and unfortunately..the Block. Elizabeth May is just an idiot. You are correct..not everything Pierre is perfect..I see it, but I see his offerings as being more Canadian, more economically sound, more useful, less theft, that what our non citizen immigrants and uninformed boomers gave us. Carney is a blatant lier, cheat, thief and EU plant. Surely he was NOT the better choice.
I voted for Leslyn Lewis in the last PC leadership race. She ticked a bunch of boxes for me and even more since she's spoken out on leaving the UN and notably the WHO. Raquel Dancho is another I've noticed....she's got some moxie. And yeah, Carney is your basic globalist pond scum, with a very slick machine behind him to keep the curtain drawn.
What exactly is the fiasco in Ukraine? Do you mean trying to protect democracy in Europe and stop a dictator from destroying a country?
The fiasco includes not mentioning or taking into account what lead up to the war; ignoring the Minsk accords,the overthrow of the duly elected gov't of Ukraine by a color revolution backed by the C.I.A. in 2014 and then the bombing of Russian speaking cities and towns in the eastern provinces for the next 7 years resulting in the death of some 15,000 people. Then when the S.M.O. (Special Military Operation) started (Feb. 2022) very quickly there were peace talks on the table (most notably in Turkey) which proceded for a couple months. A visit by Boris Johnson in April 2022, encouraged Zelenskly to keep on fighting, backed up by promises of weapons, logistical support and of course, lots of cash. So the Neo Cons in D.C. got their proxy war with Russia and varioius European countries joined in the effort. And on and on it went. Fiasco...most assuredly. A never ending slaughter of the 1st degree....most definitely.
Why mention all of that? Is PP for or against supporting Ukraine? This article is about PP’s leadership, or lack thereof.
Let's see now....I said....Ukraine....(Pierre) still committed to that fiasco. That's right he still is. You spoke of protecting democracy in Europe and Putin is bad etc. It's always a good idea to put things in perspective (thus I wrote what I wrote....whether or not you think it's of any worth, that's up to you). As to Poilievre's leadership ability I posit he is not a good leader....in part because by keeping the Ukraine bloodbath going, he/we are ignoring the ascendancy of the BRICS organization of nation states and the power they are collecting.